Episode 8 - Uli Hesse

Adam and Rob are joined from Berlin by the brilliant Uli Hesse, writer at 11 Freunde and author of - among other things - Tor! The Story of German football and Building the Yellow Wall.

We discuss the nature of glorious defeat in Germany in relation to both the national team and Uli's club, Borussia Dortmund, as well as the relatively late-blooming Bundesliga and the remarkable fact that West Germany's 1954 World Cup win was achieved prior to professionalism in the country.

Uli also takes us through the finer points of fan ownership, so often a standard-bearing idea in the UK, and we get the full story on whether RB Leipzig broke the rules and whether it can be said that they cheated (they did, and it can).

We also talk to Uli about how he started his career, what it's like working full-time at a magazine now compared to freelancing and authoring, and his favourite football books and writers.

As ever,  you can buy Jaws of Victory from us directly (or the ebook on Amazon if that's your thing), and follow us on Twitter @HalcyonPublish1 and @magicspongers